{Ep.124} "Living Single: Practical Ways to Honor God While Waiting" Guest: Rebekah Anne Perkins

In this episode of the Thinking Out Loud podcast, host Kevin Wilson interviews speaker, counselor, life coach, and podcaster Rebekah Anne Perkins about her journey to marriage at the age of 39. They discuss the struggles and challenges of being single, the societal pressures and expectations, and the misconceptions of purity culture. Rebekah shares her personal experiences of feeling left out, questioning her self-worth, and wrestling with her faith. She emphasizes the importance of finding ultimate satisfaction in a relationship with God and debunking the idea that marriage is the ultimate goal. The conversation highlights the need for a balanced and biblical perspective on singleness and relationships.

Learn more about Rebekah Anne Perkins!

https://www.rebekahanneperkins.com/

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Transcript

Kevin Wilson (00:00.62)
Welcome back to the thinking out loud podcast. My name is Kevin Wilson and I'm excited to be back with you guys this week for another week of the show. And so, um, we are, as we've said this year, uh, is, and the season of the podcast is going to be, uh, a season of encouragement. And, uh, today is going to be no different. Um, but today we are actually going to talk.

to singles today, we're going to talk to people who, uh, just for whatever reason, and we have, there's many reasons that people, uh, may be single. Uh, but God is, he cares about those of you who are going through a season of singleness, right? It could be because maybe you've never been married before. Maybe you were married before and you're divorced now and.

Whatever the case may be, we just want you to know that God is intentional and he's, he, he's listening to you. He knows right where you are. And our guests today, uh, knows about this very well. And my guest today is Rebecca Ann Perkins. Uh, and for 15 years, Rebecca has been leading and helping others develop.

Rebecca holds a master's degree in human services and works full time as a Christian speaker, life coach, counselor, and mentor. Part of Rebecca's unique story that you're going to hear today is that she was actually single to the age of 39. And then she met her now husband, Jeff. She's also a podcaster and she serves on the women's ministry team at Calvary Chapel in

Boise, Idaho, and Rebecca Perkins joins us now. Welcome to the Thinking Out Loud podcast, Rebecca.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:56.029)
I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Kevin Wilson (01:57.9)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And so we are like I say, me and Rebecca, we're kind of talking a little bit before we got on air. And her goal today, too, is just to be an encouragement to those out there who are single. And so, oh, all right, Rebecca, we're let let's talk about this. So.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (02:23.293)
Oh

Kevin Wilson (02:25.516)
I want to start off and I'm going to give I'm going to give just a couple of statistics from the US Census Bureau and it's talking about these are some statistics on singles and it says that forty six point four percent of US adults are single. OK, that's that's about one hundred and seventeen point six million unmarried Americans.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (02:43.709)
Mm. Mm.

Kevin Wilson (02:51.948)
And this was actually published September 17th of 2023. So it's recent data. So it's so, you know, I know a lot of singles, you know, feel like, hey, I'm the only one. Right. Because it seems like everyone around you is married and having babies and all the things. But I thought this was interesting as well. So I look.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (03:05.917)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (03:16.524)
back at like the age of people when they were getting married back from 1890 all the way to 2023. Okay. And so in 1890, the average age for men was 26 years old. And for women, it was 22 years old, which kind of, you know, it's really funny, Rebecca. It kind of goes against like my grandparents, because my grandparents would say, yeah, I got married when I was like 16 and.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (03:24.975)
Mm. Yep.

Kevin Wilson (03:45.804)
Things were different. They, you know, wait a minute. What happened with you, Grandma? Because in 1890, they were 22.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (03:46.141)
No. No.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (03:54.397)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (03:56.204)
But yeah, and then in 19, so it kind of goes gradually, it goes down from there to like 1940, it's with men, the average age was 2040, or excuse me, 24, and then the average age of women was 21. Then if we speed up to 2020, okay,

Rebekah Anne Perkins (03:56.829)
Wow.

Kevin Wilson (04:22.572)
The average age from 2020 to 2023 for men is 30, and the average age for women is 28.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (04:34.077)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (04:35.212)
So, you know, it's it's really something that we have kind of gradually went up now. I think a lot of this has to do with, you know, I think some of the generation, you can talk to this at some point to, you know, but I think some of it has to do with fear of commitment. Truly, I think that some of it.

Um, because some of the men that I, I talked to in council and stuff like that, they're just so gun shy because they've seen so many divorces. They've seen so many broken relationships. Um, you know, this idea that I've got to be financially perfect before I get married, like all of those things, um, has, has come into play, but, um, so let's, let's just start with your story. Okay. Let's just start with your story. Um,

Tell us a little bit about your journey to being married at 39.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (05:33.309)
Okay, yeah. Love those statistics, by the way. And somewhere along the way, I remember reading a statistic that the average age for women was 27. So it doesn't surprise me that it's gone up now to 28. But for some reason, when I was single, like really in it, the number in my head was like, well, I have to get married by the time I'm 27 to be like normal. So that number was stuck in my head. But anyway, yeah, I was...

Kevin Wilson (05:34.796)
Hehehehe.

Kevin Wilson (05:43.66)
Mmm.

Kevin Wilson (05:54.476)
Mm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (06:02.653)
I'm a pastor's daughter. My dad is a Baptist pastor. So I did grow up in the church and my parents were married young, both of my older brothers. So I have two older siblings. They were both married young. And when I say young, I mean, everybody in my immediate family were married by the time they were 22. And that's what I grew up wanting. I mean, I grew up in the purity culture, but I also grew up like in a, in a pretty good home, good mom and dad. They were in love. They raised us like,

Kevin Wilson (06:19.628)
Mmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (06:31.421)
happy home. And so I wanted that. I mean, I was, I wanted a good Christian husband. I wanted to raise good Christian kids. You know, I was committed to not having sex until I was married and all those things. And that's just the vision I had for my life. And it's again, it's kind of what happened to everybody around me. So by the time I graduated college and I was 22, both my brothers had met their spouses in college and I did not.

Kevin Wilson (06:47.116)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (06:59.805)
I was like, okay, now what? I mean, I didn't really have a plan post college. And so that was my first, like what's happening. And I had no plan to be an adult single person. I just thought I would get married and have kids. I mean, so ventured into my twenties, spent a couple of years like working, but also spiritually kind of questioning God what he wanted from me. Eventually did get.

Kevin Wilson (07:01.772)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (07:24.972)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (07:27.549)
a message and heard from him that like, okay, if I'm not getting married and having kids, like he does have a plan for me. Sent me back to grad school. Grad school is where I got my master's degree in counseling. And when I was in grad school, I worked at Liberty University in Virginia and I worked on staff there, like mentoring younger women. So girls who were still in college. So I was like mid twenties and they were still in college. And I thought for sure I'd meet somebody at Liberty. It's like one of the largest Christian schools in the world.

Kevin Wilson (07:33.484)
Hmm.

Kevin Wilson (07:57.324)
Yeah, yes.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (07:57.373)
And, you know, I dated a little there, but in essence, I remember feeling kind of invisible. I mean, I remember feeling like, why do Christian men look right through me? I mean, I really did feel that way. I don't know if that was reality, but my heart felt that way. I felt like everybody was getting picked and somehow like,

Kevin Wilson (08:07.436)
Mmm.

Kevin Wilson (08:14.988)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (08:25.245)
the train of their life was moving forward and I was just like, oddly and very confusingly to me left standing on the platform. Like that's the best way I can describe it. And just, yeah, really confused. Kept loving God and serving God, but really started to wrestle with him about around age 27. Really started to be like, do you see me? You seem to see everybody else.

I'm serving you, I love you. Like I'm even obeying. And so that, this is where I'm getting to right now is a whole season in my life. It was the season where I really started to kind of lose my faith and he had to put my faith in something bigger and better than you do this and you get that, which is kind of what my faith was at that point in my walk.

Kevin Wilson (08:55.98)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (09:13.26)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (09:21.164)
Yes.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (09:22.429)
And so I grew and we can dive into that if you want later, but I made it through that, I would say crisis of faith and launched back into, you know, now I'm 28, 29, 30. I did date, but I didn't date anybody long -term. I mean, it was usually six months at the most before I was like, no, you're not the guy or he was like, no, you're not the girl. So I actually didn't have any long -term, like super long -term relationships.

Kevin Wilson (09:29.644)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (09:45.676)
No, right.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (09:52.253)
over all those years, I just, I didn't drag them out. So anyway, I started speaking at women's retreats and I was in ministry and I was, you know, doing my full -time job. I was living on my own or with roommates. I was dating. And then I hit kind of another crash when I was about 35 because once you have a crash at 27, you think, well, for sure.

Kevin Wilson (09:55.82)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (10:21.373)
Like it's gonna happen by the time I'm 30 or 31 or 32. But again, it was mind blowing to me that I had hit 35 and I still wasn't married. Like almost a joke. Like am I living in a twilight zone? I mean, that's how mind blowing it all felt to me. And so I went through another real crisis of faith at that age and God sustained me. And then, yeah, I mean, we...

Kevin Wilson (10:24.14)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (10:29.004)
Mm.

Kevin Wilson (10:46.188)
Hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (10:51.389)
I was 38 years old and I'd been on and off of apps and met people in real life or through church or through blind dates or on an app. Usually those didn't go well. But then I did. One day some guy messaged me who was, who on his little profile it said, where do you want to be in five years? And he said, in full -time missions.

And I was like, well, I mean, that's a good answer. But I'd also come to the point where I did not trust anything that people said on those apps. But he lived like eight miles away and he asked me to coffee, you know? And so I was like, I'll go. But I went with a real negative mindset. I was like, this is not gonna work. This guy's not who he says he is. Well, we got married 10 months after that. So after all of that,

Kevin Wilson (11:24.364)
Mm -hmm, you're right.

Kevin Wilson (11:41.9)
Wow.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (11:46.269)
right after almost two decades. And then he just showed up. I mean, I really have no explanation for it except that God had a plan. You know, like, the shock and awe of like, oh, there was actually nothing wrong with me, right? Because that's where single people go. There must be something. Or I must not I must be. I don't know. I just like the shock of it kind of coming out of the blue and happening so fast was like.

Kevin Wilson (11:48.972)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (11:54.476)
Right, right.

Kevin Wilson (12:02.668)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (12:14.909)
Oh, so I really wasted a lot of time the last 18 years worrying about this. You know, does that make sense? So anyway, that's my story in a nutshell.

Kevin Wilson (12:19.66)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Wilson (12:26.54)
Yeah. No, that's wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. So it did really happen super quick for you. Like just showed up. Right.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (12:34.621)
It showed up after all that time. Yeah, I mean, it was again almost like a Twilight Zone experience because I was like calling my mom, right? And we're getting engaged and he fits in well with my family and you know, he's genuinely a Christian and we like get each other's sense of humor and all these things. Okay, it's not like we haven't had some issues. Everybody has issues, but we're a very good fit. He's I believe the person God had for me and me for him.

Kevin Wilson (13:01.932)
Hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (13:03.325)
And it's like, I don't, I still don't quite know why God decided to wait until we were our ages. But it is obvious to me that God knew all along, like Rebecca, you're gonna be 38 and it's gonna hurt. And it's gonna be a long wait. But it's also gonna be for your good. But yeah, I mean, it was incredibly hard waiting because I didn't know that, you know?

Kevin Wilson (13:18.54)
Mm. Mm.

Kevin Wilson (13:31.34)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (13:32.573)
You don't get to know that until it happens.

Kevin Wilson (13:34.86)
Right. Yeah, for sure. So, you know, I think this is where we want to be. So, you know, you talked a lot about you were I mean, it was a struggle. Those, I mean, almost two decades is a very long time. Right. And, you know, there are people now that's waiting, you know, they've only been waiting, I don't know, five years or seven years. And it seems like an eternity.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (13:52.221)
Thanks.

Kevin Wilson (14:02.348)
But talk to us a little bit about some of those struggles that you went through before you met Jeff and kind of, you know, what did you do in that time? Because, you know, the goal is really for us to honor God, even in our singleness. Right. I mean, that's that's the goal. But but because.

everyone seems to I mean, it seems like that in your world, right? It seems like, well, everyone's getting married at 22 years old. Everybody's having a baby. Everybody that I know is, you know, and with social media and stuff like that, it's even worse now because it really does look like everybody when it's really not everyone. It's just, you know, it's what you're you're being shown. Right. So talk to talk to us a little bit about those struggles.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (14:53.341)
Oh man, there were so many. I mean, in a nutshell, like the highlights of some of the struggle were feeling left out, left behind, feeling like I wasn't an adult like everybody else, as if society didn't see me as an adult because I wasn't married or didn't have kids or didn't own a home or some of the other milestones, you know?

Kevin Wilson (15:05.452)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (15:20.509)
My friends were hitting milestones and I was not and that's a real struggle. That's hard. Feeling as a female, this is probably more of a female heart issue than a male heart issue, but feeling just overlooked and like, you know, I actually was raised with a pretty, I would say solid, healthy self -esteem, but Satan over the years really started to use my singleness to make me question myself.

Kevin Wilson (15:26.092)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (15:50.06)
Mm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (15:50.365)
And, you know, why are these guys that I'm interested in picking girls all around me, but not me? And again, not just a few times, but like year after year after year after year after year, like Satan will get in there and mess with that. And so I really, really had to fight to believe that I was who God says I am and that I was still.

Kevin Wilson (15:59.5)
Hmm.

Kevin Wilson (16:09.196)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (16:19.485)
lovable and worthy even though there was no man who was validating that. So that was one of the major struggles. And then just the practical stuff, right? I mean, living alone can be lonely. Not having a dual income means you're usually a little behind financially compared to your peers usually. There's just a lot of, you know, those kinds of things. The physical, obviously, struggle of like,

Kevin Wilson (16:24.076)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (16:49.373)
I've chosen to wait until I'm married and so every, that's just a part of being in your 20s and 30s and that struggle of waiting. So yeah, I mean, that's a few of them, but then it really, really came down to the spiritual aspect of like, I just don't feel like you're, like, I feel like you're hurting me, God. I mean, I almost, I feel like you're intentionally letting me hurt year after, again.

Kevin Wilson (16:54.476)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (17:11.596)
Hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (17:17.853)
it wasn't just a couple years. So by the time it was the fifth or sixth or seventh or eighth or ninth or 10th or 11th Christmas that I was alone or Valentine's Day that I was alone, I was like, you're really, it feels like you're intentionally wounding me. And it's hard to stay faithful when it feels that way with God. And so I really had to dig super deep into.

Kevin Wilson (17:36.012)
Hmm.

Kevin Wilson (17:39.532)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (17:46.524)
to not walk away. I mean, I honestly think a lot of singles who aren't kind of getting what they want from God just walk away because they're like, I'm gonna go get what I want myself. I'm gonna go make this happen, you know, instead of really wrestling it through with the Lord. So those are a few, those are a few of the strokes. Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (17:53.196)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (18:01.004)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (18:07.116)
Yeah. Yeah. So how do you think? Because I, you know, when we think about purity culture, I I don't know, Rebecca, and I don't know what you feel about this or where you see this. But I I believe that we have taught some things in impurity culture has just been wrong. Right. So it's the you know, and we've made.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (18:31.869)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (18:36.204)
marriage or you know and a lot of times and you know this a lot of times in the church it's okay okay you're in youth group and it's like don't have sex don't have sex don't have sex don't have sex like that's the big thing right and it's like you you need to wait until marriage well then everyone tries to get married super quick so that they can have sex and what they find out they find out two or three years later into their marriage that that wasn't the thing right because

Rebekah Anne Perkins (18:47.581)
Yep. Right.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (18:55.453)
it.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (19:04.349)
That's not a valid reason to get married. Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (19:06.028)
No, it's just not right. But that but sometimes the way and I believe I was just I was just talking to my daughter about this earlier is that like it's not that the message itself was wrong, but it was it. It's sometimes how it landed. It was misguided and it wasn't balanced. And so it's like, well, you know, don't have sex, don't have sex. And I said, OK, great. But then it made sex this holy grail.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (19:08.957)
Right, right.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (19:26.077)
See you guys later.

Kevin Wilson (19:35.756)
instead of making marriage, because marriage is the thing. It's not, you know, sex obviously is a byproduct of that.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (19:36.061)
It did.

Right.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (19:43.869)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally agree. I very much wrestled and had to wrestle with that aspect of it, you know, really deeply. I mean, I was a 39 year old virgin when I got married, like one more year and they would have made a movie out of me.

Kevin Wilson (19:51.02)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (20:03.372)
Right? Stop! You f -

Rebekah Anne Perkins (20:05.629)
And so I had to wrestle with, yes, what purity culture got wrong, and it took me many, many years to finally see this and believe it in my heart, like believe it in my heart. They basically told us that if you just wait to have sex until you're married, then God will give you a good marriage. That was the trade off. Don't have sex until you're married.

Kevin Wilson (20:31.18)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (20:32.797)
God will bless you with a good marriage and a good sex life and marriage or whatever. And that's not biblical. The Bible does not say that. If you refrain from any sin, any lust, anything that God says not to do, he will bless us with spiritual vitality, life, more of him, he'll protect us, but it never says that he'll give you this for that.

Kevin Wilson (20:38.956)
Nope. No.

Kevin Wilson (20:55.724)
Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (21:01.885)
just doesn't say that. And so, you know, the other thing it got wrong, and this took me many years to, again, believe in my heart, but the other thing it got wrong is that it elevated, like you said, it made, somehow ended up kind of making sex like this holy grail. It made it an idol, which is what culture does too. I mean, culture and the church both put it way up here.

Kevin Wilson (21:01.932)
Yes, yes, so true.

Kevin Wilson (21:24.204)
Yes.

Kevin Wilson (21:28.076)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (21:28.989)
So I mean, I think the way that we correct that in the church is to make, not marriage, the Holy Grail, because the Bible's clear that some people won't get married. And, you know, the Holy Grail is Jesus. Like, it is our relationship with Jesus and the fact that he alone perpetually, never -endingly satisfies, okay? Like,

Kevin Wilson (21:40.428)
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. So true.

Kevin Wilson (21:55.02)
Yes. Yes.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (21:58.813)
That's what we need to be teaching people who are in junior high, in high school, in college. Your ultimate satisfaction, even if you're married, even if you're having a good sex life when you're married or whatever, even if you're single, your ultimate satisfaction will come from being in the presence of God. This is plain and simple. And I know that, and I believe that now, but yeah, it took me a lot of years of like...

Kevin Wilson (22:07.916)
Yes.

Kevin Wilson (22:11.692)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (22:17.484)
It's all true.

Yes.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (22:26.333)
wrestling and laying down the idol and breaking up with guys who did want to sleep with me and you know getting mad at God about that. I mean it took years to for God to tear down that idol in my heart.

Kevin Wilson (22:31.372)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (22:37.74)
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And you're that's so, so, so true because, you know, I feel like the two things that you're taught in youth group is one, find your purpose and then find and, you know, you'll find your purpose. You know, you're running around when your purpose and we, you know, I don't have time to get in all this today, but your purpose is truly Christ like that. Like it's to serve him. Right. It's you know, it's.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (22:50.429)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (23:00.093)
Amen.

Kevin Wilson (23:03.884)
It's not the job that you do. It's not the all the things, right? Even if you're a pastor, you know, that's not, you know, that's not your primary purpose. Right. So, yeah. And so I think and then, you know, that second thing is it's like, well, and like you said, it's like, well, if you do all of these things and you do them right, well, then God's going to in turn bless you with this great marriage. And how many people do we know that?

Rebekah Anne Perkins (23:12.669)
No.

Kevin Wilson (23:33.74)
maybe heard that and then got married. And then maybe their wife couldn't have, maybe they were having miscarriages or they had infertility or they didn't like, and it's like, well, God, wait a minute. I thought if I obeyed you here, you're going to give me, it's kind of like the, I hate to bring this in, but it's almost like the prosperity gospel, right? It's like, you know, if, you know, if I do this, you know, send me a thousand dollars and you're going to get a hundred thousand to back. It's like, okay, hold on.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (23:40.189)
Right. Right. Right.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (23:54.429)
It is. Yeah, it is.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (24:01.149)
Right.

Kevin Wilson (24:02.7)
Right. Like the, you know, and I think this is where, and truly Rebecca, I did not see this until a few years ago. You know, I, my, uh, my dad was also a pastor, so I grew up in a pastor's home and then, um, I was a senior pastor for, for, you know, some years. And then, um, so my, my kids, my, I have two daughters and they grew up, uh, in a SPKs and then, and so, you know, it's crazy because, you know, I,

Rebekah Anne Perkins (24:17.117)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (24:31.98)
I just did not realize it was a friend of mine who kept saying, you need to listen to this lady. There's a, you know, and she was telling me about this person. And I began to start reading and I said, you know, we've taught this all wrong. I mean, the, the, the thing that we would use, we use a rose and we'd say, you know, and obviously, obviously we want people to be abstinent until.

It's until marriage. Like we're not, we're not saying that people should go out and do anything to fulfill the desires of their flesh. That's not what I'm saying. But we would say things like, well, you were a Rose and every single person that you give your heart to, that's not your per, you know, not your husband or whatever the case may be, you know, you're just taking a pedal off that Rose. And if you were to give your, your body to this per like almost like you're just, you've committed the ultimate sin.

You can't be redeemed. You're now this used thing that no real man is going to want because all he wants, you know, and so then we have this, we also have single women out there who feel like, well, the reason why this person is not coming into my life is because I'm used, I've been abused and I'm second class. Right.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (25:23.933)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (25:46.621)
which is also, yeah, not of the Lord, yeah. Right.

Kevin Wilson (25:49.324)
Right. And really perpetuates this low self -esteem and I'm not, you know, I'm, you know, I'm not enough and all of these things that it's just not true. And it fuels the fire of the enemy.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (26:02.621)
It really does because it's making a woman or a man's sexuality about for the goal of marriage or for the goal of another human being and it's not. Like the way we conduct ourselves and our obedience and our holiness is for the Lord. Period, end of story. And I got to the point.

Kevin Wilson (26:20.972)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (26:25.373)
you know, probably early thirties where I just felt like such an oddball in my group of friends being at that age and not having, you know, gone down that road. Did I really, I remember really, really like, I mean, I had it out with the Lord and I was like, I'm just going to go do this thing because all my friends have done it and they're still getting married. Like I was, I mean, I was watching my friends who had already like kind of committed some of these sins, getting really great Christian husbands and having kids. I mean, imagine like wrestling with those things. Okay. And so I'm.

Kevin Wilson (26:38.668)
Hmm.

Kevin Wilson (26:53.516)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (26:54.94)
the Lord I'm like I'm just gonna go do it and he said okay I mean I can forgive you I would forgive you and you know what you'd probably still find a husband who would forgive you because seems like they've all done it too or whatever I could rationalize that but then in my heart of hearts this still small voice was but you'd be betraying me Rebecca do you want to honor me with your obedience do you want to trust me?

and I just loved him enough. And I knew that he loved me enough and he'd been faithful to me enough that I was like, okay, this is really about my love for you and your love for me. And it's got nothing to do with what I get out of it or what I don't get out of it. I mean, that's what it had to boil down to.

Kevin Wilson (27:25.644)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (27:39.82)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (27:43.948)
Yeah. Yeah. So as you were going through this time and you know, some of the struggles and obstacles that you, you, you were talking about practically, what did you do to get through that and to overcome some of those, you know, like I feel invisible and I, you know, all those things, like what were some of the things that you had to do practically to get through that?

Rebekah Anne Perkins (28:11.581)
Okay.

Okay, yeah, there's many that are coming to my mind, so I'll just kind of spout them off. I journaled a lot, all of my thoughts and feelings, good, bad, ugly, all my doubts, all my fears, I took them to the Lord. I was just very honest with God, and I would say when I was mad at him, and I would say...

Kevin Wilson (28:17.58)
Yeah, yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (28:37.981)
I would just say it all. I feel like a lot of people hold back from the Lord or they feel like they have to have this like, oh, but I still believe God is good. Oh, I went through some phases where I didn't. But the one, I mean, practically speaking, what I did do though is I still approached the throne. I still came into the presence of God with my feelings and with my anger and with my doubt. I didn't take a sabbatical from him for.

lack of a better word. I didn't just turn away and say I'm done arguing this out with you. I argued it out with him. Like repeatedly, right? So that's one thing I did. And then the other thing I did for the most part through a couple of those really difficult seasons when I was 27 and then again in 35 there were like

Kevin Wilson (29:13.324)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (29:28.861)
some Sundays where I'm like, I just can't, or even a couple months where I'm like, I just can't stomach going to church alone anymore. Going to church alone as a single person is pretty wounding. And so, but for the most part, I stayed in church and I stayed in Christian community and I stayed around friends. The other thing I did is, I mean, and God led me to do this, right? I mean, God opened the doors for me to start speaking, but I used my story vulnerably and honestly, even while I was in it.

Kevin Wilson (29:34.892)
Hmm.

Kevin Wilson (29:59.308)
Mmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (29:59.325)
You know, I would speak at women's events. I don't know how God opened those doors. You would think women would only want like a married woman. But I was by the time I was like probably early 30s. I was speaking at like women's retreats and there most of the women are married. Most of them are older than me. Most of them have kids. And yet I would stand up there and I'd be like, this is my doubt. This is this is my area of wrestling with God. And this is what God told me.

Kevin Wilson (30:09.58)
Hmm.

Kevin Wilson (30:18.764)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (30:28.876)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (30:29.149)
This is how God has sustained me. And they were able to interpret that for their own life, right? And apply that to their own life. But I just, I didn't pretend like it wasn't hard.

Kevin Wilson (30:40.396)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (30:43.613)
And what else did I do? I mean, those are the ones that come to mind. Those are the practical things I did. Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (30:47.66)
Hehehe.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you so at some point, when did you start disentangling from the things like and start understanding that the some of the purity culture stuff that we talked about, you're like, ah, something's not right here. Like, you know, and you start realizing that, yeah, I don't just get because I did this and then God's going to in turn do this like.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (31:08.573)
Mm.

Kevin Wilson (31:20.012)
When did that become a thing for you? Like how, how did you work through that?

Rebekah Anne Perkins (31:26.461)
Yeah, that was definitely that specific part most profoundly happened at that time that I've alluded to a few times now when I was like 27. And it was a summer where I'd also had a friend who'd committed suicide and I'd also had a breakup that summer. And I think I went to like 11 weddings that summer. So my heart before the Lord was like...

Kevin Wilson (31:40.844)
Hmm.

Kevin Wilson (31:46.668)
Mmm, wow.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (31:54.493)
Are you good? Because if you're not, I'm not doing this Christianity thing. Like maybe it was really just something that my parents passed on to me and it's not true. You know, there's a lot of people in the world and throughout the history of the world that haven't been Christians that don't believe in this stuff. And maybe I don't because I don't see any evidence. I'm like, where's the proof? Where's like, I'm not seeing any proof that you're good. And he...

Kevin Wilson (32:04.268)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (32:12.972)
Right. Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (32:22.525)
through a series of things just humbled me and really did show me my pride and worked in me to show me that he doesn't owe me anything. I mean, that was kind of where I was at with him. I have not had sex before marriage. You owe me a husband. I mean, that's kind of what it boiled down to for me. That's how I know the purity culture was deep in me because I was like, I've waited.

Kevin Wilson (32:46.284)
Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (32:49.533)
And I have all these friends who are getting married this summer who haven't. So this is like a real sticking point for me. I've waited and you aren't giving me a husband, right? And God said, Rebecca, I don't owe you anything, first of all. What I give freely is all of me. And you have all of me. And he really started to...

Kevin Wilson (32:52.428)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (33:09.836)
Hmm. Hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (33:18.685)
reveal to me my pride in my works and the fact that he loves me despite my works, good or bad. My works are as filthy rags to him, but that holiness and following his commands and living within his boundaries is for my good. It's not to get something from him. It's because Rebecca, if you do any of these other things, it will hurt you. It will harm you.

Kevin Wilson (33:24.332)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (33:46.252)
Yes.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (33:47.645)
which I can see now. I mean, I can see now the pain that I have avoided by following God in this way. I couldn't see it then. But yeah, that's where it started to unravel for me was that age, that summer. And it really, he really revealed to me my pride and the fact that like, I know this sounds harsh, but the fact that like,

Kevin Wilson (33:53.004)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (33:57.676)
Hmm.

Kevin Wilson (34:04.46)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (34:17.309)
Ultimately what we're owed as humans is hell and everything else is grace and everything else is a gift and it just it kind of silenced me you know and it kind of made me realize that he was God and I was not.

Kevin Wilson (34:20.364)
Yeah. Yep.

Hmm.

Kevin Wilson (34:34.764)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (34:35.581)
And I was like, okay. So now that, you know, and we moved forward from there.

Kevin Wilson (34:38.252)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Wilson (34:43.116)
Yeah, I yeah, and I want to make sure that that you guys heard what she just said because that is so true We don't hear that often enough And it's profound and I think it would change the way you think us as humans Literally, we're actually owed hell like that that that's what truly we are actually oh and everything else that we get in this life is

Rebekah Anne Perkins (35:10.621)
Yes.

Kevin Wilson (35:12.524)
God's grace on our lives. None of these things are owed to us. None of these things that we can't work enough for them. Like it's God's grace on our lives. That is powerful. And I really, really, if you're listening to this episode right now, I want you guys to understand that and hear that because that is...

Rebekah Anne Perkins (35:14.877)
Amen.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (35:27.133)
Right, right. Amen.

Kevin Wilson (35:40.908)
That is the gospel, like right there. That's part of the gospel. It's just, it's His grace, just like everything else, right? And that's why we can't put marriage, we can't put sex, we can't put kids, we can't put it. Like none of that stuff we can put at the top of our list and say, well, I must have this because God is more concerned about our holiness than He is our happiness.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (35:44.285)
Thanks.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (35:49.277)
Race. That's race.

Kevin Wilson (36:10.38)
Right. That's just and I know it's hard to hear. Like, I know it's hard to hear. But God really is is is he wants us to be holy. He wants us to be. And I don't mean this in a weird, like backwoods way. Like, you know, in a sense, I like we're not all wearing, you know, you know, women are wearing skirts and hair in a bun. That's not what I'm talking about. Right. Right. We're we're talking about.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (36:10.877)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (36:28.029)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (36:32.925)
Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (36:39.308)
being just being more like Christ. That's his goal for you. And you know, everything else is icing like on the cake. Like it's just, that's so Rebecca. I just want to make sure that nobody missed that point because that was good. And that's what we need to hear.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (36:56.381)
Amen. Well, and let me say this too. I mean, the fact that I am thankful for things, like I can live with a heart of gratitude and the fact that I believe I do understand, like it wasn't until that summer that I started to grasp grace. And I've had a lot of people tell me, you know, now as a speaker and as a coach and stuff, oh, you're, you just ooze grace or I love the grace, you know.

Kevin Wilson (37:24.076)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (37:24.285)
And I give all the glory to God. I didn't do that, I didn't learn it, I didn't read it in the Bible. I had to go through that pain, that anger at God. He had to, you know, he just, if you stick with him in the fire, gold will come out the other side. And like anything that I have that's good today, and I'm not saying I'm perfect, he's constantly taking us through fires, but anything good in me, okay, so.

Kevin Wilson (37:39.66)
Mmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (37:51.101)
If I understand grace or if I'm a thankful person or if I have peace, it's because of those fires. I mean, period, end of story. It's because of the fires. And so therefore, like, no, I don't want to go through that again, but I will, I will if I have to, because I know that like only beauty comes out the other side.

Kevin Wilson (37:57.132)
Yeah.

Yes.

Kevin Wilson (38:04.428)
Alright.

Kevin Wilson (38:12.652)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so true. How does a person not become obsessed with love? Um, Oh, and, and, and because I feel like because that's like the main thing in their life, you know, that they want, you know, when you're poor, you think the main thing you need is, is to have money. When you're sick, you think the main thing is to be well, right? You know, it's, it.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (38:34.045)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (38:37.629)
Yeah, when you're single, you're like, I need a person.

Kevin Wilson (38:40.652)
right. You just you that when you're alone, you feel like well, companionship is the thing. Like that's what I need. Right. How do you not become just obsessed with love in the sense of, you know, because you know, you hear people say, well, I love love, which is fine. That's great. Right. I'm not saying it from a man standpoint, because I know.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (39:02.525)
Yeah, that is fine, but remember that God is love.

Kevin Wilson (39:05.164)
Right, right Yeah, yeah, but But how do we not? Become because that just can become an idol and that's all we're looking for and we see everything through that lens other than Truly being obsessed and following after God. How do we how do we mitigate that?

Rebekah Anne Perkins (39:07.901)
Like, okay.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (39:30.749)
Okay, well first of all, I think this is really important to figure out when we're single because if you, there are people who are obsessed with love and the idea of love and marriage and they get married and guess what they do? They overwhelm their spouse. They usually, usually what happens is that marriage becomes toxic or too much pressure on that other person or you know what I mean? Like if you really think a human is gonna solve all of your loneliness,

Kevin Wilson (39:43.404)
Mmm, yes, yes.

Kevin Wilson (39:54.316)
Yes?

Rebekah Anne Perkins (40:00.061)
all of your insecurity, all of your purpose, okay, which is where people are at usually when they're obsessed with love, then you're gonna put a weight on that person that they can't handle. And a lot of people have to sort that out when they're married because that often does happen, right? You've made that man or that woman an idol and then they fail you or they're working too hard or they have a baby and they can't give you as much attention and now there's all this.

Kevin Wilson (40:04.108)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (40:13.9)
Yes. Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (40:29.149)
You're not making me happy. You're not coming through for me. You can wrestle it out when you're married or you can wrestle it out when you're single. But the wrestling out when you're single, I believe, looks like prioritizing friendships, staying in Christian community, battling those feelings of loneliness, learning that, I mean, sure, there's a bit of you that's like...

Kevin Wilson (40:32.492)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (40:55.837)
Romantic love is different than friendship love and it's different than familial love and stuff like that. But if you're in a community and you've got close friends, you're not gonna be lonely. I mean, I felt solitude on purpose and I felt times of, I guess, loneliness, did I?

Kevin Wilson (41:09.676)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (41:24.445)
But I didn't feel that constantly because I made sure to go out of my way, first of all, to be close to the Lord, right? And when you're close to the Lord, then you never feel truly alone. But I was pretty aggressive about like, it's Friday night, I'm not sitting at home alone. I will go to my brother's house. I will go hang out with a friend. I will make some plans. You know, I didn't like being alone too much. I don't think it's healthy. So.

Kevin Wilson (41:34.028)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (41:39.788)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (41:53.501)
That's one of the practical ways is just to like friendships and community and fight for that. But then also, yeah, not making it an not loving love. I mean, that was the ultimate. That was the question, right? Not being obsessed with love. I mean, I still am obsessed with love, but I've realized that ultimate love is God. It's he's the ultimate love. My husband does a really good job of loving me.

Kevin Wilson (41:58.092)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (42:07.244)
Yeah, yeah, I've been obsessed with love, yeah.

Kevin Wilson (42:17.868)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (42:23.421)
But not all the time, he's a human. And even now that I'm married, there are moments where he's sick or dealing with his own thing or stressed from work. And guess what? I still go into my prayer closet and I let God, who's perfect at meeting us, pour his love into my heart.

Kevin Wilson (42:25.1)
Yeah. Yep.

Kevin Wilson (42:39.468)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yep.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (42:45.021)
because I learned how to do that as a single person, you know?

Kevin Wilson (42:47.244)
Yes. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. People, you know, one of the things that we've me and my wife have taught marriage classes over the years. And one of the things that we tell young couples is you hear they, oh, well, this person completes me or this per, you know, like, well, I get what they're saying. Right. And I get it. And it's cute. But there is no there is no one on this earth that can truly complete you.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (43:04.573)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (43:14.877)
No. No.

Kevin Wilson (43:16.044)
Like they just can't. And I know when you're on the single side, it's hard to see that because you feel like that being single is such a void that if this person comes and they love me, it's definitely going to fill that void. Like how could it not? But they don't understand that when that person comes and like you said, they're stressed out for what, from work one day or they're just agitated or they're...

whatever the case may be, and that could be the very day that you need them the most, but because they're not perfect, they will fail you in that moment. And you have to have a source that you know, and are convinced where your actual true consistent love comes from because.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (43:50.173)
could be.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (44:07.901)
Yes. Yes.

Kevin Wilson (44:09.004)
Anything could happen in your marriage. Like you have no idea what the future holds. And if that person, like you said, is almost like God to you, you know, and this is where I really believe Rebecca, a relationship with God, a very strong, vibrant, not legalistic, but a strong, vibrant relationship with God is so important because if you don't have that, you're not going to have anything to fall back on.

And when you, and then, and then it just puts more pressure. If you're single on, I need somebody, or if you're married, you put more pressure on that spouse that is very flawed and cannot be God, but it's impossible for them to be God.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (44:49.181)
Yeah. Right.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (44:55.613)
Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. And I don't feel like Jeff completes me. God himself completes me and I'm a whole individual and I was before we got married. And so was he, which is part of the reason I married him. You know? And it's, you know, we, I just can't imagine the pressure of being married to someone who didn't feel complete in Christ. I would just.

Kevin Wilson (44:57.036)
And so.

Kevin Wilson (45:02.412)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (45:08.972)
Mmm. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (45:25.245)
that would feel overwhelming to me. And as a woman, I'd be like, I can't carry your pride or your purpose or whatever it is that you need me to like validate in you. And I felt that sometimes when I was dating guys or guys who said they were Christians or whatever. I was like, you're gonna like it, it was clingy, it was needy, it was too much, you know? So I remember feeling that. So yeah, I mean,

Kevin Wilson (45:48.204)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (45:55.293)
To be honest, to the single people out there, marriage is good. When I got married, I did feel, I did not feel like I became more complete. I also didn't feel like my life all of a sudden had more purpose, it didn't. What it did feel like, societally, and kind of practically and generally, was that,

Kevin Wilson (46:08.812)
Hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (46:24.445)
I finally like kind of started moving forward. I mean, I did a lot in my singleness. Like I got a degree and I led mission trips and I started a ministry, but there was a piece, I'm gonna be very honest, that the moment you become a wife and you have a husband and the church sees you that way or culture sees you that way, that there was a sigh of relief that went, okay.

I'm finally in the next chapter like everybody else. That did happen. But that's really the only major shift that I felt.

Kevin Wilson (46:56.396)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Wilson (47:05.324)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (47:10.028)
Do you think in your, just in the way you think about this, do you believe that there is, and when you say something like soulmate is kind of a worldly term, it's not necessarily a church term, but you know, or we usually say the one, you know, the one that God's called you to be with, you know, that kind of thing and everybody's searching for the one. Is that?

Rebekah Anne Perkins (47:34.781)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (47:38.764)
How do you feel about that? Like, do you feel like that's a thing? Like, because I feel like people, they're just like constantly searching for the one. And when they're dating, it puts this huge burden on them to find out if this person is the one, you know, in that mix. Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (47:58.717)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (48:03.677)
I mean, my personal opinion on that is that's just the wrong question because it's still kind of making love or marriage the idol. And I don't know that we're ever gonna get a right answer when that's, God's gonna be like, there's no right answer to that because it's like the wrong perspective. What I do think, what I do believe is in the peace.

Kevin Wilson (48:10.412)
Mmm.

Kevin Wilson (48:23.66)
Yeah. Yep.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (48:34.045)
of praying through something and believing that you're in the will of God and not lying to yourself. So.

Kevin Wilson (48:41.964)
Hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (48:46.493)
I think I could have lied to myself on a few occasions before I married Jeff and married, there were two people who were interested in marrying me and the Holy Spirit kind of stalked me until I broke up with them. But I have free will. I could have ignored him and I could have married them. And if I'm honest with you, I think they would have been the wrong one. I don't, I mean, could God have redeemed it? Would God still have blessed or worked through it? Sure.

Kevin Wilson (48:59.98)
hehe

Rebekah Anne Perkins (49:16.669)
I think it probably would have been a harder marriage than what I'm dealing with now. That's my personal opinion.

Kevin Wilson (49:20.588)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (49:25.085)
And in the still small voice, even though I was 27 and 33 and I really wanted to be married, there was something in my spirit that said this isn't, there's something off here. And when I met Jeff, even though there were a few things about Jeff, he was, he's eight years older than me. I didn't picture myself marrying someone eight years older. Um, you know, there were a few things about him that maybe weren't on my perfect list or whatever, but there was a piece of my soul.

Kevin Wilson (49:37.964)
Hmm.

Kevin Wilson (49:52.812)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah. Mm. Mm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (49:56.669)
There was a peace in my soul. And so for me, it's less about is there really the one? And it's more about my life is about abiding with Christ and listening to the Lord. And if the Lord is pointing me in this direction or that direction, break up with this dude, Mary. Like, are you listening to God? And if you're listening to God and God is prompting you that this is a right relationship, do it.

Kevin Wilson (50:15.884)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (50:26.252)
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah. This, I'm about to ask you a question that may be unfair, okay? Because you might not, this is gonna be, it's kinda hard, okay?

Rebekah Anne Perkins (50:27.645)
Do you see what I'm saying?

Kevin Wilson (50:42.924)
I can hear people out there saying, Rebecca, that's great that you can quote, hear from God, right?

Rebekah Anne Perkins (50:51.165)
Yes.

Kevin Wilson (50:54.252)
You know, and I can hear people say, well, I just, I don't know. Like I'm dating these people. They seem good. They seem great. Like they're super, they're super, he's super sweet. And you know, he's, you know, he, he seems to love me for me. And you know, he, there is a couple of things where I'm like, you know, but like, I just, I don't know. Like, I feel like I would just be.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (51:01.501)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (51:17.085)
me.

Kevin Wilson (51:21.964)
questioning forever, Rebecca. But, you know, is there a way is there? And I know you can't, you know, it's it's so funny because I get that all the time. Well, Kevin, how do you hear from God? And I've always just said you have I don't care what in, you know, in my in my journey, it's been that I've had to have a robust prayer life.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (51:22.429)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (51:33.437)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (51:51.788)
I literally cannot hear from God if I don't have a robust prayer life. But I think a lot of times, Rebecca, I hate to say this, but there are so many people who go to church, they check the box. They do love the Lord, but they struggle with spiritual disciplines. And so what happens is when they are dating, it's like, OK, well, now, God, I need to hear you.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (51:52.381)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (51:57.565)
Yeah. Oh yeah.

Kevin Wilson (52:19.34)
Because I need to know and then it's like well, okay, God, can you speak? Can you speak? Can you speak and then God does it and then they either make a decision not to be with this person or be with this person and sometimes it's good sometimes it's not and That's where I I know there's people out there going well, I don't quote hear from God or people that are maybe not You know

Rebekah Anne Perkins (52:20.157)
Right, right, right.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (52:33.277)
Right. Right.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (52:45.533)
Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, I want to speak the truth over any, you know, truly saved person. You know, if you have the Holy Spirit, you can hear from God. So, yes, it might be a lot of prayer and a lot of Bible study and asking other people to pray for you or listening to how he speaks to you through sermons or music. But if you're honest with yourself and you're actually seeking, you can hear from God. I really believe that. You know, there were multiple...

Kevin Wilson (52:51.724)
Yes.

Amen.

Kevin Wilson (53:09.004)
Amen. Amen.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (53:15.613)
I feel bad. I feel like I'm just like talking about my dating experience as if I did everything perfect and I didn't do everything perfect. But there were multiple instances where I didn't know if I should be with this guy or not. And multiple. And my honest prayer. I mean, it was heartbreaking and I cried my eyes out till I had a migraine. But my honest prayer before the Lord was I am so desperate to get married.

Kevin Wilson (53:31.116)
Mm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (53:45.373)
that I don't even have the strength to break up with this guy if I'm supposed to break up with him, so you're going to have to do it. Like, if this is not the guy for me, I don't have the strength to do it, I don't have the will anymore, I'm exhausted. But if it's not the right person for me, God, end it. And you know what happened on every single one of those occasions? That guy broke up with me.

Kevin Wilson (53:51.564)
you

Kevin Wilson (54:12.78)
Mm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (54:14.205)
That guy broke up with me and I went, okay, you heard my prayer, Lord. And I moved on. But I missed that prayer when I prayed it because I was like, I don't want to be outside of your will. Yes, I want to be married. Yes, I want to have kids, but I don't trust my own decision -making more than I trust your heart for me. I don't. And I don't trust my flesh. And I don't, so like, you're going to have to intervene here. And every single time he did.

Kevin Wilson (54:18.124)
Mmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (54:34.956)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (54:44.108)
Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it makes total sense. Total sense. Yeah. No, I love it. Well. So practically, what does a single life look like honoring God? Like, what is that person doing? Like, are they, you know?

Rebekah Anne Perkins (54:46.909)
Does that make sense?

Yes.

Kevin Wilson (55:11.98)
You know, we've we've got all these scriptures that we we mess up like, well, they that wait on the Lord shall we do there? You know, and and God gives us the desires of our heart, not understanding what the desires of our heart is. You know, God, God is actually giving us our desires, not he's giving us everything that we want. Right. And there's all these Christian cliches and Christian knees. And you kind of come to church as a single and you just go, OK, I've heard it all. I know. You know.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (55:27.357)
Right. Right. Right.

Kevin Wilson (55:39.308)
My guy's coming. My gal's coming. Yep. I know. I just got to trust God, you know.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (55:44.477)
The moment you stop looking they'll show up.

Kevin Wilson (55:46.988)
Yeah, yeah, right, right. Yeah, like it's, you know, like all.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (55:52.797)
Girl, I stopped looking, boy, I stopped looking 100 times before he showed up.

Kevin Wilson (55:55.692)
Yeah, right!

Yeah, right. It's like all of these things. But what is that person doing? Are they busy? Are they waiting? Are they, you know, let me before you even answer that, I, I, I need to, I need to ask you this question. Um, you know, um, a lot of people have this, this thing where they, um,

Um, you, you have to give me a second. I was, I'm, I'm losing my thought here and I'm gonna have to have the producer take this out. Um, but, um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, Oh, um, I don't know what it was, so I'm just gonna, I'm gonna move on. We'll go back to what we said and he'll take all the stuff out and not worry about that. But, um, but, um,

Rebekah Anne Perkins (56:32.317)
Yeah. Okay, we'll come back.

I'm back. Another feeling.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (56:52.381)
Okay, yeah, no problem.

Kevin Wilson (56:58.028)
What does that look like? Like what is that single person doing? Um, you know, because they, they, you know, they shouldn't be waiting, doing nothing and being just, you know, right. But, but, but by the same token, um, you know, they still want to go out and date and do all these things. Um, what are they doing while they're waiting? And, and how does that, how can they honor God doing those things?

Rebekah Anne Perkins (57:04.541)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (57:29.501)
Well, I do...

I don't know that it's a lot different. I mean, I don't know that honoring God looks a lot different for a single person than a married person. I guess in some, like in, yeah, I guess in a few small, tangible ways it does, but on a heart level, on a spiritual level, obedience, abiding with Christ, asking God constantly to just make us more into the image of Christ, putting other, just,

Kevin Wilson (57:40.172)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (57:49.164)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (58:03.005)
loving him with our whole heart. Like even married people have to do all that. Even tired moms of young kids who are pushing all of their buttons and are struggling with motherhood or whatever. Everybody's kind of wrestling and you can wrestle well by, yes, staying close to the Lord, staying in community. I...

Kevin Wilson (58:06.38)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (58:29.676)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (58:32.957)
I don't know how this quite fits in and he was joking when he said it, but the other night we were driving home, me and my husband and I like country music and a country song came on and I was like, man, I have a lot of these like almost like country music moments in my life. Because I went on a lot of adventures and I do think that in my 20s and 30s, God blessed me with, I would say quite a big life, even though I wasn't married yet.

Kevin Wilson (58:49.292)
Mmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (59:02.909)
And he kind of looked at me and he goes, I didn't know about all those or I don't know about all those. And I said, well, what did you think I was doing for 20 years? And he goes, pining.

Kevin Wilson (59:13.484)
hahahaha

Rebekah Anne Perkins (59:15.325)
I went, you know, he was joking. He was joking. But a part of my, a part of me looked at him and I was like, that is not what I was doing for 20 years. Um.

Kevin Wilson (59:17.548)
Right, of course.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (59:29.213)
I did have moments of pining with my mom on the phone, right? With my best friend, with my God in prayer. But then God would reveal to me or prompt my heart with his next step for me. Go back to school, lead this trip, be the best aunt you could possibly be. Like.

Kevin Wilson (59:32.62)
Mm -hmm, right. Sure.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (59:51.293)
my life was moving forward and he was blessing me greatly. He wasn't blessing me with the one thing that I kind of wanted him to bless me with, but I think honoring God is listening to him and taking those next steps of faith and the next steps of courage and maybe starting to orient your heart and your mind around the fact that like, I don't have to just make getting married my goal right now. Like,

Kevin Wilson (01:00:16.14)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:00:19.933)
I've heard of some girls who are like afraid to leave college or home or whatever, because they're like, I need to be around Christian men. That's kind of, I feel like that's kind of making your goal marriage more than making your goal honoring God. So if God is speaking something into your heart, 27 year old girl or 33 year old man, and you are afraid to do it because you think it's gonna make me unmarryable.

Right? If I go buy this house, no man's gonna want me because I'm too strong. Or if I go become a missionary in Africa by myself, never gonna find a wife if you're a guy. I think those are the only moments where single people are in trouble of not honoring God because God does have a plan for your life. And I think he's whispering it to a lot of single people and they just don't wanna hear it.

Kevin Wilson (01:00:49.516)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (01:01:09.452)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (01:01:15.276)
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's man. That's another one of those powerful nuggets, because you can become very self -absorbed as a single and and scared. Right. Because you're like, well, but if I do this or I do that or I move or I go to another state, like you said, even another country, well, then I'm going to miss what God has for me, because there's no way I'm going to find my husband in Zimbabwe. Right.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:01:25.661)
Yeah, and scared.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:01:44.061)
Right, and all the while God is saying, beautiful, your beautiful life, like this is what I have for you. And daughter, son, when I want you to get married, you'll get married. So like, honor me with your singleness by listening and obeying and stepping into the beautiful adventure that I have for you now.

Kevin Wilson (01:01:51.18)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (01:02:04.716)
Yeah, yeah. Don't waste your life, right? Like you, because you can't get those whatever years, five years, 10 years, 20 years, whatever it is, you can't get those back. And if you've, if you've spent that whole time just sulking, yeah, right. That I don't.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:02:09.181)
No!

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:02:15.709)
Don't waste it.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:02:21.181)
pining. Yeah, that would be the biggest regret of my life is if I would have gotten married at 39 and finally like had what I wanted but then looked back on my 20 years or whatever and realized that I had wasted them being mad at God or pining or whatever. That would have been the single biggest regret of my life and the fighting through to be like, okay, I'm going to do this thing even though it's really scary. I mean, I had people tell me, don't go...

Kevin Wilson (01:02:50.188)
Mm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:02:50.941)
don't go get your master's degree and become a speaker, that's really gonna intimidate men. Like Christian men don't want strong women. I literally had people tell me, and I'm like, okay, but I feel like God is telling me to do it and God's not bringing me a husband, so I'm gonna listen to God and I'm not gonna listen to all of you. You know? Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (01:02:58.54)
Oh my goodness.

Kevin Wilson (01:03:05.164)
Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, and a lot of that stuff do stuff that you wouldn't be able to do. Sometimes you wouldn't be able to do half of this stuff when you're married, you know, and especially if you decide to have children or adopt kids or do whatever, you're not going to have the time to go on all these missions trips and.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:03:20.733)
Yes. Yes.

Kevin Wilson (01:03:29.836)
serve in your church like you maybe want to or whatever the case may be. And it's like, you know, and I think sometimes people find their spouses while while they're serving. Like it's like, you know, stay home and, you know, you're not don't, you know, your family's at home. That's it. And that's weird. The only the only people, you know, but if you're out and you're serving God and you're doing the things that.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:03:44.061)
Oh yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:03:51.517)
Right.

Kevin Wilson (01:03:59.788)
You know, you know, it's almost like Ruth, right? You know, she's just out doing her thing, you know, and I know that can be a cliche ish kind of thing. It's like, well, you're going to be out there. You're going to be grazing and Boaz is going to come around. You know, it's like, OK, right. And so I'm not saying it in the in the traditional I'm just saying make your life count and do all the things. Enjoy your life because it actually is important.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:04:12.669)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (01:04:28.94)
it's actually possible to enjoy it and without a spouse or without being in a relationship it actually is a thing but you have to

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:04:37.309)
Well, and it's actually, yeah, a thing to, like, it's not like married people are at a higher spiritual level than single people. They're not. Or really not. So a 20 and a 30 year old single man and woman can still be as impactful for the kingdom. They can still bring as much glory to God. God still has a specific, beautiful plan for you. And it's not like you're the forgotten. It's not like we're the left out. It's not like,

Kevin Wilson (01:04:44.908)
Right. Yes. Yes.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:05:06.397)
our life somehow matters less. I know society makes us feel that way and unfortunately sometimes the church, oftentimes the church makes us feel that way. The Bible does not. In fact, the Bible says, like, I wish you could stay single like me. I mean, like, the church really needs to shift how they frame singleness because most singles feel like their life is less important.

Kevin Wilson (01:05:22.348)
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Wilson (01:05:30.795)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:05:35.869)
for God, for the kingdom, because they're not married. And that is not true. It's not true. It's not biblical.

Kevin Wilson (01:05:39.916)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so true. In our in our last little bit here, last few minutes. What are what are some what advice do you have for people who are dating and what is some practical boundaries that you would say in dating? And because you're you know, obviously we're Christians, we want to honor God. So how do we?

honor God in our deity.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:06:13.373)
Yeah. All I can, I mean, I can just speak from my experience. And for me, that was, you know, not having sex before marriage. It was that even though I resist a lot of the messages of the purity culture, that still is a biblical command and it still is for my good. Right. And to honor God. So that, but I do.

Kevin Wilson (01:06:25.1)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (01:06:33.004)
Sure. Yep.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:06:42.141)
I do stand, I'm a little bit of a gray area on dating non -believers. The reason I say I'm a gray area is because I did date one guy who was not a Christian, but I made a covenant with the Lord that I was like, he was expressing interest in the Lord and going to church with me. And I was like, if he doesn't quickly come to know you, I will break up with him. And...

Kevin Wilson (01:06:50.476)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (01:07:09.26)
Hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:07:10.589)
it break up with him, but it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life because I felt like I lied to him. And he was very confused when I did break up with him. He's like, you started dating me under false pretenses and now you're breaking up with me. Like there was a lot of guilt on my part when I, when I finally did have to break up with him. Um, so I think being really careful about dating people who aren't in the faith, um, or at least being willing to break up with them if the Lord promised you to do that. Um,

Kevin Wilson (01:07:22.444)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (01:07:26.572)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (01:07:32.076)
Mm -hmm. Yep.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:07:42.333)
Practical dating advice? Yeah, I think...

The only other one that felt practical for me was that I wasn't gonna date for a long time. I wasn't gonna move in with the guy, you know, obviously, if I'm not sleeping with him, but I didn't wanna do the whole like two or three years. It's kinda like pretty quickly, you know, we're gonna know a year or so. I mean, we did go pretty far. Like meeting to married in 10 months was really fast. I know that. But I don't...

Kevin Wilson (01:08:08.812)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:08:18.173)
think people should waste years of your life if, I mean, that's my opinion. It doesn't mean God can't work on people in years and years and years and years of dating, but that's between you and the Lord, really. Yeah, just staying close to the Lord. It's really easy when you get into a relationship and it's all new and wonderful and feels good to kind of neglect your quiet time or neglect going to the Lord with your thoughts and your heart.

Kevin Wilson (01:08:23.852)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:08:47.389)
And it's really important to continue to do that, especially in the beginning phases of a relationship. Those would be my thoughts about dating.

Kevin Wilson (01:08:53.676)
Mm -hmm.

Um, last question, how do you prepare yourself spiritually for your spouse? You know, because I feel like you have, you know, singles, they have a lot of time to do a lot of things. And sometimes we, you know, we can focus on things that we don't really need to focus on. And we could probably have a better marriage.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:09:12.093)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (01:09:23.34)
If we just worked through some things, because I was a person that got married young. And I'll tell you right now, the first few years of my marriage was crazy because I, Rebecca, I was still working through my own stuff, but now I'm married. And so I had to work through it with her, with my wife. And it's just like, it just, and I look at people who are single and maybe they're single for a little while and it's like, Oh my goodness. Do like, do the work, like do the stuff.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:09:41.725)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:09:52.637)
Yeah, totally. I mean, I'm a Christian life coach, like my background's in counseling. So I meet with people one on one and I help them do the stuff, but absolutely like work through any family trauma or background stuff that you know you have. But a lot of times people don't know they have stuff until they get married and they're like, oh, I didn't even know that was there.

Kevin Wilson (01:09:53.9)
Like, you know, so how do you?

Kevin Wilson (01:10:05.74)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (01:10:16.94)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:10:20.669)
So yeah, for sure, working through anything that you have that you're aware of, but you know, right when you said that, just the first and greatest commandment came to my mind, which is love the Lord your God with all of your heart. So if we're focusing on loving the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength, you'll be spiritually prepared for your spouse. It doesn't mean marriage won't still have its ups and downs. Marriage is one of the things that God uses as a refining fire, right? It reveals.

Kevin Wilson (01:10:30.636)
Hmm.

Kevin Wilson (01:10:47.82)
Mm -hmm.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:10:49.181)
some selfishness, it can reveal idols, it can reveal all kinds of, but it's, and it will teach you things that you couldn't have seen in singleness. I mean, I've learned things about myself on a spiritual level that even with all that stuff I did as a single person wasn't revealed to me. But if you love the Lord your God with all of your heart and all of your soul and all of your mind and all of your strength, you will be a good spouse. And

Kevin Wilson (01:11:09.356)
Mm -hmm.

Kevin Wilson (01:11:16.748)
Yeah.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:11:17.629)
And I believe you'll be able to get through the fires and the trials that marriage and parenting can bring.

Kevin Wilson (01:11:24.332)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that 100%. Folks, I encourage you. I know I have pastors that listen to this show as well. I encourage you to have Rebecca out. So I know you guys do, you know, conferences, retreats, and different things like that. Have Rebecca out. Remember her website is Rebecca Ann Perkins. It's Ann with an E. So it's Rebecca Ann.

Perkins .com go there. She has some coaching that she does as well. So she has sessions on there. You can see, uh, the, uh, those there, uh, also, uh, watch some things on YouTube. She's got some, uh, YouTube, her podcast. I mean, there is a plethora of things that she is doing for the kingdom. And, uh, I think it's important for you to.

Uh, support her ministry, uh, have her out, uh, and so that people can be blessed by, uh, the things that God has placed in her heart. And, uh, I'm going to have that link to her website in the show notes. So, um, if you just click that link, it'll take you directly to her website. Uh, and then you can get involved, uh, in what she's doing, uh, for the kingdom of God and, uh, Rebecca, I am, I'm just grateful.

Um, that you came on and I, I just, uh, I'm grateful that, you know, this story could have been totally different. It really could have been. And I know that you're not perfect and I know that there has been, you know, and I, yeah, but God is, God is right. And you didn't let ultimately, you did not allow this.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:12:53.533)
Thank you.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:13:07.005)
But God is.

Kevin Wilson (01:13:16.364)
to derail your faith and just cause you to completely turn your back on God. And I just, you know, and because of that, so many people are being helped today. And so I just, I just want to say thank you for being obedient, even when it was hard. I, and cause I, I know, I know, I know. And I, you know, I have people in my own life who is going through this. And so I see it in real time and it's, uh,

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:13:42.621)
Yeah.

Kevin Wilson (01:13:46.252)
It's, it's a blessing to have people like you who you can, you can just pop on this podcast at any time. Somebody could go on your website. They can contact you. They can all of these things because you listen to God and obeyed. So thank you so much for being on the show and, uh, and folks.

Rebekah Anne Perkins (01:14:00.925)
Mm.

Kevin Wilson (01:14:06.092)
Like I said, Rebecca and Perkins .com. Don't forget to rate and review us everywhere. You listen to this podcast. I don't forget. Also, if you have questions, if you want to talk a little bit about this episode and let us know what you thought it's two four eight three zero one, twenty ten two four eight three zero one, twenty ten. We love you. God bless you. And we will see you next time.